April 2008
Patrick Tsai & Madi Ju - My Little Dead Dick
Being a photographic obsessive, I am constantly browsing through new photography websites. I normally spend less then a minute on each one because being exposed to so much photography everyday, many things being to look the same. It has become increasingly rare to discover work that feels new, refreshing and courageous. When I first encountered Patrick Tsai and his partner Madi Ju's work it stopped me in my tracks. Looking through them made me reassess the different dimensions photography can be used to communicate a story. I ended up spending over an hour looking through every single photograph and link on Tsai and Ju's website My Little Dead Dick. Their work reminded me of photographs done by Nan Goldin and Ed and Deanna Templeton. Contemporary, honest, intimate and raw.
How did you come up with the name My Little Dead Dick?
We came up with it one night after we just seen the first few rolls of film that we had taken together. We were just throwing out words and it all fell into place. We kept laughing at the thought of us meeting some business executive and introducing ourselves to them as My Little Dead Dick. It seemed so wrong and embarrassing that we thought it was perfect. The name also works on many levels. For example, it plays off the stereotype of all Asian men having small penises... Also it's unusual to hear someone referring to their dick as something other than huge because it reflects their manhood and ego.
There are so many cultural differences between being an American and being Chinese. Your photographs highlight and embrace these differences so lovingly. It's a stereotype that Americans can be confronting and bold while the Chinese can be shy, passive and non-confronting etc. The wonderful thing I love about your photography is that it goes against these stereotypes and because of that, it highlights them as well. Your photographs shows the beauty in each culture. Chinese photographers can certainly be bolder and more confronting with their work and vice versa. Was this a conscious aim? Am I reading too much into your work?
I like your interpretation... In terms of both Chinese and American cultural differences/similarities, I think our work does serve as a kind of a bridge between the two although we didn't do it intentionally.
Our cultural differences had been a major problem in our relationship during our first year together. Before I moved to China to be with Madi, I was very anti-China from everything I heard and read in the news. After meeting her for the first time in Macau (which we only spent the total of nine days together), we jumped on the decision to live with one another. So after I finally moved, we immediately had to deal with real life - problems like getting to know one another, living together, political differences, and especially living in a foreign country with a government that I was afraid of.
When we took photos together, all those problems disappeared for the moment. We didn't think about politics and cultural differences, we were collaborating and trying to capture or create something real and honest.
Actually the stereotype about the Chinese being shy and passive, I totally disagree with that. Chinese people in the mainland are very different than Chinese people abroad. Chinese people here are very direct and blunt. When foreigners come to China for the first time, they are usually put off by Chinese social etiquette as opposed to Japanese culture where everything is aesthetically pleasing and easy to enjoy. If you live in China long enough, you eventually get used to or become desensitized to things like spitting, cutting in lines, children pissing in the street... and begin to see that behind the grit and roughness, there is an intense tradition of kindness that people have towards friends and family which makes up for all that unpleasantness.
How has publicly documenting your relationship affected it's dynamic? Did it speed up the process of getting to know one another? Did having a camera around ever cause tension?
The first photograph I took of Madi was of her undressed on our hotel bed the night we met. It was the first time she had ever been photographed nude and it didn't seem wrong or uncomfortable for her. Maybe in another situation with another person, it might have felt like that, but doing it together just felt natural from the very beginning.
At first when our photos were first posted on the internet, it was very exciting for both of us. Aesthetically these new pictures were not as well composed as our earlier work, but we felt that they were very raw and full of energy. We were putting ourselves out for everyone to see hoping they saw what we saw.
Although there were times when we began to feel the pressures of our work being noticed and followed. When we were traveling in Tibet and Nepal, we were having serious problems in our relationship. Having the weight of people expecting us to show photos of Madi and I together being happy all the time on this amazing journey just exacerbated the situation. There were moments where I felt like we had to force smiles for the camera, but luckily we didn't succumb to that. In the end, we still just photographed the intimate moments when things were good.
Chinese people are usually very self-conscious about their bodies. The naked pictures were a surprise to me. Before you started working together did you have any boundaries set regarding what you would show and what you won't?
Not really. We try to stick to the policy where the photo is most important regardless of how embarrassing it is for us. Like a couple of months ago, we were very excited to hear that a Brazilian magazine who interviewed us wanted to use a photo of ours for their cover because it was our first time, but it turned out the photo they chose was basically a close-up of Madi's chest. It made her really uncomfortable, but she understood that the photo actually worked well on the cover so she consented.
When we first started taking photos together, many of Madi's friends and fans of her earlier work were shocked to see this new side of her as well as this new direction that she was taking.
Was there a different reaction towards the work between Chinese and American audiences?
At that time, Madi already had a kind of following because of After17, a girl's online magazine that she created with her friends. For our Chinese audience which mostly composed of Madi's fans at first, half of them liked it and the other half were appalled. Some of them just couldn't look past the nudity and see what it was about. I am not sure what our American audience thought. I guessed they liked it although when we were featured on Vice's website a year later, we mostly had really terrible comments by people complaining that they could have taken better photos.
I've read that the Chinese government's censorship has blocked some of your work. What is the feeling amongst young artists in China at the moment regarding government censorship? Are most people aware that their internet access are being restricted?
China has blocked Flickr last year because of protests in Xiamen and now Youtube is gone because of the situation in Tibet. It can be really frustrating to put your work out there and have it wiped out because of some event that happened that does not necessarily relate to you. I think at least the people who are really capable of using the internet know that things are being censored and are able to find ways around it.
Websites get blocked because of sensitive material being discussed or shown. Someone then finds a new website to re-post, then that gets blocked. Then they might find another site to post it on, then that eventually gets discovered and blocked. It can go on and on. For some bloggers, it's like a game but it can be very dangerous because if you are not careful, someone might come knocking on your door. Which happened to a friend of mine.
Do you see censorship forcing Chinese artist to produce art with certain qualities? Can you see a time when restrictions will be lifted?
There is generic criticism of China which is actually harmless here, but is being exploited for money. For example, a lot of Chinese art these days which are supposedly about “sensitive material” often turns out to be really generic and contrived. Not surprisingly, these works tend to be very popular in the art market. Foreigners love buying anything that criticizes Mao, McDonald's (aka globalism/consumerism), Communists, and dragons. It's an easy sell for established and “hip” Chinese artists. I think because of that fakeness, a lot of young artists are trying to do something more personal.
I don't see things changing for at least another 20 years or more.
Patrick, what was it about the war in Iraq that made you want to flee America? What was the final thing that pushed you to leave?
I was living in New York when the war broke out. It was obvious that it shouldn't have happened and that we were being lied to. New York City was becoming a police state. There were groups of military helicopters flying over my apartment and police with machine guns in the subways daily. I was tired of seeing and hearing people's rights being taken away while the police and government got more in the name of “fighting terrorism”. America just didn't seem like the place to be anymore.
Anyways the world is bigger than just the USA. There are other places to see and experience.
Does the series Modern Times, signal the end of your Photo Diary pictures? Will you keep documenting your relationship?
For the time being, our Photo Diary is done. We wanted to move on for many reasons. One was we felt like we exposed our life and bodies enough. We finally needed some privacy. The second major reason was that we feel that young photographers are all heading in the same direction. These past couple of years, the internet is being oversaturated with people photographing their friends partying and being wild as well as lovers naked in bed. It seems to be the new trend.
For me, it would be interesting to see these people go beyond their daily lives and work on something that is not as convenient and accessible. Modern Times was my attempt at that. It was a test for me to see if I could be a photographer in the traditional sense.
I think after Ryan McGinley's initial success, he kind of realized that and went into a new direction with his photography by creating scenes in the forest.